3 hours ago, Gashzer said:
Developers don't praise people exploiting badly wrote code in their games. They patch them.
Don't use the word cheese, call them what they are, bugs. You are using unintended bugs to kill bosses. Cheese is making 40 bunnymen to kill bee queen, this isn't a bug, it's just massive overprep of a intended mechanic to steamroll a boss.
Which is completely different to exploiting a bug like for example the old lureplant exploit to block AFW. This was a bug and got patched.
Klei arnt removing cheese at all, they are fixing their game which should be praised not ridiculed.
Honestly klei hasn't done enough to boost the late game survival experience just yet. Rift content just isn't scratching that itch. We need a new area to unlock after both rifts are opened, we need more exploration.
DST shouldn't be about megabasing and if it is about megabasing. Why havnt we got a legitimate creative mode yet klei?
This gets a no from me, chief. What's called "cheese" is subjective, as I've gone to great lengths to demonstrate in other threads.
More importantly, there's the core of your argument: "they're fixing bugs and that's good". This is not a universal truth like you seem to believe it to be. Aside from things like pig and gobbler farms that abuse mob pathfinding and are accepted by the devs as legit, there are also ascended bugs in other games.
The classic example is rocket jumping: originally unintended by the developers of Doom and Quake. By your logic, they should've patched it out. However, because they did the smart thing and analyzed whether the bug was bringing more or less enjoyment to players, they kept it in, and now rocket jumping is a core mechanic in many video games that developers go out of their way to implement. What does this prove beyond a shadow of a doubt? It proves that some bugs aregoodand onlyaddto the game.
There are also more recent examples.
In Team Fortress 2, the Demoman character can use a shield weapon to charge at high speeds. Players discovered that charging, especially while turning, against certain sloped map geometry will cause them to fly through the air quickly. What did Valve do? Did they patch that out? No. Instead, when they made a melee-only mode where those shields are very useful, they actually put a specific sloped rock on the map that's very easy to launch yourself into the enemy base with. They later added a shield that gives you full turning control (making it way easier to use for that on any map).
In DOOM: Eternal, the Super Shotgun's Meat Hook was intended to let you grapple directly towards demons, but players discovered they could strafe and turn while grappling to gain substantial amounts of momentum, which gave them much more freedom of aerial movement. Though unintended, this was later accepted officially by the developers when they added platforming challenges that require you to do it, once again due to them realizing that it's something players enjoy.
4 hours ago, cameron8800 said:
Klei should be focusing more in survival and base building and potential interactions in the world rather than just making more and more bosses.
The game needs more interesting things to do beyond just grinding for materials to kill bosses or sitting around waiting for a particular boss’s spawning time.
There also needs to be more player choice. It really is a shame that Klei seems dedicated to forcing players to play the one way they decided was the “right” way. Nearly every other developer praises their players for finding unique solutions that they never considered. Patching Cheese just means being anti-fun. Exploiting gameplay mechanics that have existed for nearly a decade is not cheating so please don’t tell me that I might as well just use console commands to spawn in items. Klei has an awful track record of punishing creativity.
But player choice comes in more forms than the ability to cheese bosses. There need to be more viable options for solving problems. It feels like klei wants to force players into playing “The Meta”
I think I agree with all of this. While I do like killing bosses, there's a reason I've been playing with a mod that adds in Shipwrecked and Hamlet lately. The base game's overworld (and especially the caves) do feel like they could use more stuff to do, especially pre-rifts.
The only thing I disagree with is Klei having an awful track record of punishing creativity. They've honestly been pretty good about it until recently? The first example I can think of where they punished creativity was removing the Lure Plant cheese, and they've gotten worse about it from there. It is a troubling trend that I would like to see fully reversed, though.
Edited by DegenerateFurry